User talk:WK94
Hi, welcome to Baseball Wiki! Thanks for your edit to the Top 500 Players Ever page. Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! -- Youk4MVP (Talk) 02:47, April 9, 2009 Hi, WK94. Quite frankly, I don't know if this is the real Ron Liebman or not, and I have neither the time nor the energy to seriously look into it. I greatly appreciate you looking out for our interests. That being said, I have looked over a few of the edit wars you've been having with Liebman over the past 24 hours. On Tony Lazzeri's page, Liebman asserts that Lazzeri's cycle was overshadowed by Lou Gehrig's hitting four home runs in a game. This is fairly common knowledge amongst fans of that era, I don't see why it is being disputed. On Dom DiMaggio's page, I think you misunderstood what he wrote. He said Dom was selected to the Sporting News all-star team over his brother Joe. The Sporting News All-Star team does not play a game, it is purely honorific. Joe's "off-year," as Ron calls it, could very well have been caused by injury, but you are getting the Sporting News All-Star team (which is announced post-season every year) for the AL and NL squads that play every July. Finally, in Cap Anson's article, Ron is simply stating that SABR-backed research supports a certain hit total for Anson. I agree, there is a little self-promoting going on there, but if true (I'm not going to go buy the book to find out), it s certainly significant to the article as SABR is a well-respected organization. I paid very close attention to Liebman's edits in the first few months that he was editing here. If I had found even one fact that was false, I would have banned him immediately. However, the fact is, that I haven't been able to pinpoint a single statement that could be considered fallacious. Please, point one out to me, if you can, I'll ban him and we can consider this whole mess done and over with. If you can't, however, please reconsider the accusations you've made against him. I have to leave open the possibility that he really is who he says he is. Please don't be offended by anything that I've said here, or assume that I'm just an idiot who doesn't know how to take good advice. I'm just trying to understand the whole story. Thank you --Youk4MVP 22:36, 10 April 2009 (UTC) :I've requested that Wikia run a checkuser on Liebman, as well as other accounts that I deemed suspicious. As per the policy laid down by User:RyanCross, I've tried to assume good faith, but this is getting old. The naming conventions and annoying strategies are exactly the same as what happened on enwiki. When the results come back from Wikia, I'll look possible. Obviously, there isn't as much oversight here as on wikipedia; I'm the only truly active admin, and I just don't have the time to watchdog every edit. I appreciate you helping to sort this situation out. --Youk4MVP 21:31, 11 April 2009 (UTC) Liebman You know what's just as annoying as someone harassing and stalking people on Wikipedia? Someone doing the exact same thing on this site as retribution. I don't know what, exactly, you hope to accomplish by undoing every one of Liebman's edits here, besides expanding your wikipedia edit wars here. You have legitimate gripes with Ron Liebman, I understand that. All I ask is that you leave your Wikipedia problems on wikipedia, and stop filling the edit log with this silliness.--Youk4MVP 17:18, 29 June 2009 (UTC) :Wikipedia edit wars? He's been leaving insane messages on people's talk pages for years. That's not an edit war, that's harassment. If Baseball Bugs heeded my advice, he would have sought legal action long ago. As for here, why would you want Liebman to claim he's a noted historian when he's clearly not? Or claim credit for a book which appears to be 100% false? Look what he drove people to at Baseball Reference: http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Ron_Liebman. You want to wait until he gets you to the same place? I don't understand what you're trying to accomplish here when things like that are allowed. How can you expect to gain any sort of credibility? WK94 16:43, 29 June 2009 (UTC) ::Okay, looking back over the edits you recently made, I have to apologize. Usually Ron has been a useful source of baseball trivia, but those cases were more like pandering for attention. You were absolutely right to remove those remarks. This whole situation is just frustrating to me, since I don't have the administrative team that wikipedia or baseball-reference has to deal with Liebman. I'm not even a bureaucrat here, I just happen to be the only active admin. My general policy on Liebman has been appeasement, and it has worked so far. I just don't want to see everything that has gone on in other places happen again here, since we (I) can't deal with determined sockpuppetry.--Youk4MVP 17:18, 29 June 2009 (UTC) re: sheesh No, just one face. I apologized because I was wrong, but I'll be the first to admit that I haven't liked the way that you've gone about this situation from the get-go. Personally, I don't think either of you are 100% in the right. Obviously, Liebman started this whole mess, but you haven't exactly assumed good faith, even from the beginning. You and the other admins at wikipedia labeled him a vandal, before he even started his multiple-account BS. Liebman did try to use sockpuppets here, on at least two different occasions, but both of these were in response to an outsider questioning his integrity as an editor. Besides those two incidents, he has done nothing wrong here, certainly nothing to deserve reversion of all of his edits. I think that you started off as legitimately trying to help, but you've sunken down to his level and turned this into an anti-Liebman crusade. I recently expressed to Liebman, as you know, that I wasn't a fan of the way you were handling this. Suddenly, I become "ye of many faces." I see both sides, that doesn't make me your enemy. I said a few months ago that I would monitor Liebman's edits here, and take action if necessary. That action has not been necessary, and yet you have returned, seeking to punish him for his past sins. He may deserve it, I don't know. None of us know what goes on inside his head. But, based on the here and now at this website, he has done nothing wrong, save for a few harmless name drops, which have been reverted and locked. I'm sorry you've chosen to treat me as the enemy; all I am trying to do is act in the best interests of the Baseball Wiki, while at the same time assuming good faith, which is one of the basic tenets of Wikipedia and Wikia alike. --Youk4MVP 15:12, 6 July 2009 (UTC)